Specific Contributions of the Innovators of Our Generation

[buga]

The question begs to be asked, are there any other contributions besides "technique", with the exception of Derek who hinted outside the box everyone seems to be focusing on just "physical means", or independence.

Human fallibility is what makes good work so amazing. Not all of us are gifted with such capacities as to paint like Picasso, think like Einstein, or play basketball like Michael Jordan. But, when those individuals come around with such attributes and skills, they should personally exploit their talent in their work. But, in that work, realize that what they are doing is more than good, but often GREAT.

One should strive to do the best they can when putting their hand to something. But, good work, such as what I'm referring to, takes time. What many perfectionists do not realize, at least the perfectionists that I've come into contact with, is that their "work" is often above and beyond what is required, expected, and anticipated by all, except for their own self.

I guess in the end, that is what you have to do, set your own, realistic, personal standards. You can do everything to look "perfect" to the outside world and still be miserable within your own, so look to putting your own house in order, and the rest should, theoretically, follow. [img]smile.gif[/img]

<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ February 16, 2004 03:48 PM: Message edited by: Bozzio ]</font>

[FuseU1]

"The question begs to be asked, are there any other contributions besides "technique", with the exception of Derek who hinted outside the box everyone seems to be focusing on just "physical means", or independence."

Indeed. As pertaining to [but not limited to] "pocket feel" ...some folks prefer Chambers'/Gadd's/Garibaldi's/Kennedy's/Erskine's/Jeff's/JR's/Curry's/Gaynor's/Carlock's/or Carlos', AOT, say, Weckl or Virg's...just to point out a few of the types of [any combinations] of [several] comparison's...well, you "get the drift."

<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ February 16, 2004 03:35 PM: Message edited by: FuseU1 ]</font>

[Plaid]

Originally posted by shedder:
plaid, how can you say virgil is not fluid? that is 500% nonsense! yes, he sometimes muscles his drumming but who doesn't? even vinnie said in that clinic audio file that steve shared that you get a certain effect by muscling a single stroke roll compared to using rebound. i think it's impossible to play the way he does without being fluid. it's just not possible.

nikk, that is hilarious! i know how you feel!

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Nonsense? That's a little strong. Virgil is not a fluid player, and that's my opinion. Being able to play a series of chops and patterns in time does not automatically a fluid player make. I NEVER said not fluid meant not great.....THAT would be nonsense. (all 500% of it....of course, fluidity is a huge asset nonetheless) Virgil plays robotically, and I just got through listening to Serious Young Insects, and though it's blatantly obvious that the guy has physical ability beyond most (like we all already know), I wasn't moved at all by his playing, and to my ears, I can HEAR his physical approach, which, from what I've listened to, is RIGHT on top of the beat. ....and I just KNEW the Vinnie Clinic reference would come up as soon as the "muscled" part came into it. Virgil's "muscling" and Vinnie's "muscling" are COMPLETELY different, so I don't buy into that arguement at all. There have been parts in some of Virgil's soloing that have been fluid parts....no question, but playing songs (last time I checked) was the ultimate meter of fluidity, and he ain't got it. (as I said...not YET anyway)

[Plaid]

Ok, let's take two tunes from VC and DW, and you tell me how you think they would sound with Virgil playing them:

1) Heavy Resin

2) Wake up

Here's how I think they would sound: They would be right on top of the beat, with many creative and innovative patterns and licks permeated throughout the songs, but NEITHER would flow musically anywhere NEAR what the original guys do on them..........to me, THAT's "fluidity". (if you're definition is different, that's perfectly fine....I'm not saying mine is right, or yours is wrong) Now....that said.....every player is different, so every player's interpretation of a song is going to sound different obviously. My point is that Virgil's versions of most ANY truly groove feel oriented song will sound stale and out of his element, and though I'd probably buy it anyway just to hear his technical ideas throughout, I'd NEVER buy it for his feel. To me, the most suited type of music for Virg's feel is Progressive/Technical - Rock or Fusion. Is that to say he can't PLAY all other types of music?? OF COURSE not........I'm sure he can play the heck out of most all styles all day long. I just don't think he'd make most of them "move". Get my drift?

[McKenzie]

Execution of one's stroke's(precise, even and consistent or not regardless of the dynamic level whether very muscular or not) and one's pocket are very different. You have mentioned his pocket a few times and relate it to his fluidity of his stroke's, but they are 2 different aspects of drumming. Not liking his pocket is different than his execution being fluid or not. And is being very physical disqualify one from being fluid? It is funny because for MANY years many people called Weckl Robotic and stiff and machinelike in his playing, the guy got trashed for years, and I sure did not here it back than with him either. Just trying to understand. Take Care.

Dig